Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier Still Capable of Higher Production

Would like to see him flanked by weal and simmonds to start this year

Weal-couturier-simmonds
Lindblom-giroux-voracek
Raffl-Patrick-filpulla
Lehtera-Laughton-vecchione

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier Still Capable of Higher Production
- bmeltzer

I think we all know Couturier is capable but we've been having the same debate every offseason since he entered the league 6 seasons ago. He will never be entering his 7th season.

Good morning.

Would like to see him flanked by weal and simmonds to start this year
- Just5

Agreed.

I think we all know Couturier is capable but we've been having the same debate every offseason since he entered the league 6 seasons ago. He will never be entering his 7th season.
- SuperSchennBros

??

When it comes to Couturier, it also must be mentioned that nearly every player who plays on his line has better advanced stats than they do when they play with other centers.

Would like to see him flanked by weal and simmonds to start this year

Weal-couturier-simmonds
Lindblom-giroux-voracek
Raffl-Patrick-filpulla
Lehtera-Laughton-vecchione
- Just5

I know he's been saddled with a lot of defensive responsibility as well as not having great players on his wing, but he's never broken 40 points in 6 NHL seasons. That is pretty disappointing for a top 10 pick.

I know he's been saddled with a lot of defensive responsibility as well as not having great players on his wing, but he's never broken 40 points in 6 NHL seasons. That is pretty disappointing for a top 10 pick.
- PLindbergh31

Basic stat lines never tell the full story, good or bad.

Never broke 40 points, yet has had two 39 point seasons. Does 1 point really make that big of a difference? First season with 39 points he did it in 82 games (3rd season) then did it again in 63 games (5th season) and had 34 in 66 games last season.

People need to get over the whole generic stat line defines every player and look at the whole picture. A plus player during a terrible season last year says more than his points.

I know he's been saddled with a lot of defensive responsibility as well as not having great players on his wing, but he's never broken 40 points in 6 NHL seasons. That is pretty disappointing for a top 10 pick.
- PLindbergh31

He most likely would have broken 40 points each of the last 2 seasons had he not missed games due to injuries.

But let's take a closer look:
13-14 82GP 39 points, 36 ES or SH
14-15 82GP 37 points, 31 ES or SH
15-16 63GP 39 points, 32 ES or SH
16-17 66GP 34 points, 32 ES or SH

His even strength production is comparable to most 2nd line centers and if he ever gets to play with the same wingers for most of a season and plays 70+ games, he will almost certainly break 40 points. When you consider he plays the hardest minutes of anyone on the team and is usually going up against the opponents top center on most shifts, I think he's done well.

Basic stat lines never tell the full story, good or bad.

Never broke 40 points, yet has had two 39 point seasons. Does 1 point really make that big of a difference? First season with 39 points he did it in 82 games (3rd season) then did it again in 63 games (5th season) and had 34 in 66 games last season.

People need to get over the whole generic stat line defines every player and look at the whole picture. A plus player during a terrible season last year says more than his points.
- Glak18

On a team full of guys who can't do jack poop at ES and can only score on the PP... Coots is on an island.

Flank him w/ a couple of guys who can also get it done at ES, and Coots' numbers will respond accordingly.

I know he's been saddled with a lot of defensive responsibility as well as not having great players on his wing, but he's never broken 40 points in 6 NHL seasons. That is pretty disappointing for a top 10 pick.
- PLindbergh31

He should be removed from the pp permanently do to the reasons bill laid out. If they do that I'll be thrilled if he hovers around 40 pts. Stop the pp nonsense and lean on him 5 vs 5 and pk heavily.

As far as #8. No issue with it. He's a good player. Just needs to be used more effectively

BTW, here are the Flyers top ES/SH point scorers for 16-17, Filppula's numbers include his time with Tampa

1. Voracek 38
2. Filppula 35
3. Couturier 32
4. Simmonds 29
4. Provorov 29
6. Giroux 27
6. Schenn 27
8. Konecny 24
9. Gudas 22
10 Read and MDZ each with 17

He should be removed from the pp permanently do to the reasons bill laid out. If they do that I'll be thrilled if he hovers around 40 pts. Stop the pp nonsense and lean on him 5 vs 5 and pk heavily.

As far as #8. No issue with it. He's a good player. Just needs to be used more effectively
- Just5

I'd be fine with this. He should be the team's leader in SH minutes and also the top center in ES minutes. They have other guys that can play on the pp. If he plays with Weal and Simmonds for most of the season and plays say 75 games and only sees occasional spot duty on the pp, I see no reason why he can't finish with 40-42 points.

Basic stat lines never tell the full story, good or bad.

Never broke 40 points, yet has had two 39 point seasons. Does 1 point really make that big of a difference? First season with 39 points he did it in 82 games (3rd season) then did it again in 63 games (5th season) and had 34 in 66 games last season.

People need to get over the whole generic stat line defines every player and look at the whole picture. A plus player during a terrible season last year says more than his points.
- Glak18

Fair points. I agree with you for the most part. My point was I thought he would bring more offense to the table.The way he's been used certainly is part of the disappointing production. He's missed somewhere between 75-80 NHL games due to injury if I'm not mistaken. That is pretty much a full season.

Good read as always ....

Coots is what he is, I know, that was deep. He is a very solid defensive forward who can at times lift his game offensively. It does tend to be against the toughest opponents (Pittsburgh, Washington, LA) and since he does play his best offensive hockey against the toughest opponents, and at even strength...that is all well and good. What it does really highlight is going forward not the even strength scoring that the Flyers have lost with Brayden Schenn, but the PP scoring and how will that be made up.

Agrees the talent has always been there....but consistency in both health and confidence never has been. I've always thought a third line center who shuts down the other teams best player and can score 15 goals is just as valuable if not more. If Nolan can develop and Rubstov also then Couturier may not get the chance after this year in Philly anyways to become a consistent point producer. It's not like the opportunity hasn't been there.

The real issue is - what do the FLYERS need in order to be successful. I've always maintained that the club is best-served with Couturier as a 3rd line center. I don't want to limit him as a defensive specialist per se. He needs offensively-skilled wingers so the line overall can contribute significantly, particularly at even-strength.

The problem is that Giroux needs a second act. He needs a highly-skilled 2nd center that can help relieve the overall offensive burden from his line. He needs a complementary line so that he is not the sole focus of the opponent. Stop G's line and the PP and you pretty much will beat the Flyers. Since Briere left, he has not had that strong 2nd line.

Couturier will never be a guy that an opposing coach has to game-plan for. To me, the best thing about winning the lottery is that the team can finally get that strong 2nd line center so Couturier can slide into a more natural role. Think of it as having 2 second lines, albeit with one having a little bit more responsibility on defense.

Good read as always ....

Coots is what he is, I know, that was deep. He is a very solid defensive forward who can at times lift his game offensively. It does tend to be against the toughest opponents (Pittsburgh, Washington, LA) and since he does play his best offensive hockey against the toughest opponents, and at even strength...that is all well and good. What it does really highlight is going forward not the even strength scoring that the Flyers have lost with Brayden Schenn, but the PP scoring and how will that be made up.
- wbon22

Yup. Between improved production from TK and full seasons of both Weal and Filppula, I have no worries about making up Schenn's 27 ES points. The powerplay will be interesting to say the least. With a new coach we may see a totally different type of set up than we did under Mullen so it's almost impossible to predict the units and how they will operate. I think the only sure bet is that Giroux, Simmonds and Ghost will be on the top unit, after that, it's anyone guess.

The real issue is - what do the FLYERS need in order to be successful. I've always maintained that the club is best-served with Couturier as a 3rd line center. I don't want to limit him as a defensive specialist per se. He needs offensively-skilled wingers so the line overall can contribute significantly, particularly at even-strength.

The problem is that Giroux needs a second act. He needs a highly-skilled 2nd center that can help relieve the overall offensive burden from his line. He needs a complementary line so that he is not the sole focus of the opponent. Stop G's line and the PP and you pretty much will beat the Flyers. Since Briere left, he has not had that strong 2nd line.

Couturier will never be a guy that an opposing coach has to game-plan for. To me, the best thing about winning the lottery is that the team can finally get that strong 2nd line center so Couturier can slide into a more natural role. Think of it as having 2 second lines, albeit with one having a little bit more responsibility on defense.
- TheGreat28

While I agree with the gist of this, I don't fully agree with the line I bolded. While the opposing coach may not have to game plan to stop Couturier offensively, they will though try and go out of their way to avoid having their top center match up against him and that can mess up a coaches plan, especially when playing on the road.

While I agree with the gist of this, I don't fully agree with the line I bolded. While the opposing coach may not have to game plan to stop Couturier offensively, they will though try and go out of their way to avoid having their top center match up against him and that can mess up a coaches plan, especially when playing on the road.
- BiggE

I agree with your point, which speaks to his defensive accumen. My comment was more regarding his offensive contributions.

Fair points. I agree with you for the most part. My point was I thought he would bring more offense to the table.The way he's been used certainly is part of the disappointing production. He's missed somewhere between 75-80 NHL games due to injury if I'm not mistaken. That is pretty much a full season.
- PLindbergh31

Well that has a lot to do with expectations surrounding when a player is drafted. Fans and media are to blame for that. I look at a player as what they can contribute to a team win. Someone needs to be good at faceoffs or along the boards or PK or any other less flashy attribute for a team to win.

When the Flyers start winning more, stats for Couturier will go up. I know that is Captain Obvious, but that is just how sports work. In the mean time his value to the team is more than points right now.

I agree with your point, which speaks to his defensive accumen. My comment was more regarding his offensive contributions.
- TheGreat28

Then I totally agree.

Well that has a lot to do with expectations surrounding when a player is drafted. Fans and media are to blame for that. I look at a player as what they can contribute to a team win. Someone needs to be good at faceoffs or along the boards or PK or any other less flashy attribute for a team to win.

When the Flyers start winning more, stats for Couturier will go up. I know that is Captain Obvious, but that is just how sports work. In the mean time his value to the team is more than points right now.
- Glak18

If Patrick can be a legit 1C by the end of 18-19, and I think he can, they will be in great shape.
Going into the playoffs that season, their top 3 centers and ages will be:

Patrick 20
Giroux 31
Couturier 26